I was a kid in the 50s. Taxes were low enough that mothers stayed home with their children. The country became middle class then. People began buying second cars. Our parents had lived through the Depression and World War II, so those times didn't seem like ancient history. Sex before marriage was bad. Rock 'n' roll was considered dangerous at first. Cars were beautiful. You could look at one and immediately know what make, model and year it was. The Bomb hovered over us sometimes, but we trusted the government. Everyone went to church on Sunday.
Gdubbya SQUEEKED by Kerry, because of just over 100,000 Votes, in Ohio, or Kerry would now be President Elect, thanks to the Electoral College. Gdubbya might have lost the WHOLE game, had Kerry won those few Votes, in just that one
RED State.
after the last four years wouldn't Kerry have conceded had he lost the popular vote and won the electoral vote? He would be an illegitmate president after all!!!!!!Â
"You never served, therefore you have no right to an opinion".
Bill didn't say that. He said if you give an opinion, he'll weigh against his standards. You might not agree with his standards (I don't) but he's got them.
Don't we all do that?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 7, 2004 at 08:25am.]
Bill didn't say that. He said if you give an opinion, he'll weigh against his standards. You might not agree with his standards (I don't) but he's got them.
What he said was:
...just as I am not going to acknowledge anyone who hasn't served in uniform, on these two threads. Because the "Honest" truth is (To me anyway), that you cannot know what it is like nor can you judge anything in the services, good or bad, so all those who haven't served can do is "Comment", in the absurd-abstract...And you do it so well too!
That's pretty much shutting anyone out that hasn't served.
It's absurd.
A majority of people in this country haven't served. To shut them all out like that is insane.
"That's pretty much shutting anyone out that hasn't served."
He's doing it personally, but that's not stopping you from commenting.
"A majority of people in this country haven't served. To shut them all out like that is insane. "
It's not insane. He'll just judge your comment from some lofty perch he's constructed and figures he's entitled to.
You and I pay taxes for the DoD just like anyone else. I figure I can comment on the military if I want to. I've been told more than once around here what I'm qualified to comment on and what I'm not qualified to comment on and I ignore it.
He isn't going to ignore you anyway.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Nov 7, 2004 at 10:28am.]
Happy 229th Birthday to the United States Marine Corp.!!!!!!!!
Semper Fi.Â
 The safest place in Korea was right behind a platoon of Marines. Lord, how they could fight! [MGen. Frank E. Lowe, USA; Korea, 26 January 1952]
Why in hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines. [Gen. John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, USA; 12 February 1918]
 have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world! [Gen. Douglas MacArthur, USA; Korea, 21 September 1950]
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem. [Ronald Reagan, U.S. President; 1985]
Marines I see as two breeds, Rottweilers or Dobermans, because Marines come in two varieties, big and mean, or skinny and mean. They're aggressive on the attack and tenacious on defense. They've got really short hair and they always go for the throat. [RAdm. "Jay" R. Stark, USN; 10 November 1995]
 They told (us) to open up the Embassy, or "we'll blow you away." And then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these really big guns, and they said in Somali, "Igaralli ahow," which means "Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake." [Karen Aquilar, in the U.S. Embassy; Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991]
Don't you forget that you're First Marines! Not all the communists in Hell can overrun you! [Col. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC; rallying his First Marine Regiment near Chosin Reservoir, Korea, December 1950]
I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold. [1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC; in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918]
I love the Corps for those intangible possessions that cannot be issued: pride, honor, integrity, and being able to carry on the traditions for generations of warriors past. [Cpl. Jeff Sornij, USMC; in Navy Times, November 1994]
Â
Â
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 10, 2004 at 02:03pm.]
The Rat just got back from Keegen's Pub (a hangout of the Northern Alliance bloggers). He saw the van decorated with Marine logos parked outside the bar as he walked in after working.
Keegan's is a faux Irish bar in Northeast Minneapolis. A few knicknacks, Irish music on the CD (none of the great radical Hate-the-British songs), a menu with nothing that would be considered Irish.
The guys were dressed in red jackets and carried a small banner. A little boistrous, but nothing out of line. The were just leaving as The Rat finished his Smithwicks.
One more song before we leave, the apparent leader yelled.
The men in red lined up and sang the Marine anthem. The Rat feels uncomfortable at things like this. But he clapped, and so did everyone else as they went out the door.
"Glad we were the second bar instead of the last," the bartender said.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 10, 2004 at 04:12pm.]
My understanding is that the "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up by/for the servicemen aboard the ship to celebrate the end of their mission and their return home. Bush had nothing to do with it.
Top 11 administration explanations for the "Mission Accomplished" banner on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln.
1. The crew thought it would be a great idea to have a message banner with the same background that they saw when they took a break from the war to watch Dubya address job creation in Canton, Ohio the week before.
2. Typo. It was supposed to read, "The first step on a long road that will still cost hundreds of U.S. lives and hundreds of billions of dollars.
3. "Spontaneous Generation."
4. It was the only thing available to cover the vandalism left behind by departing Clinton staffers.
5. Dubya is infallible. The person transmitting to his "hearing-aid" misrepresented the story of the banner.
6. Dubya soiled the alternate "Bush 2004" banner during the carrier landing.
7. What banner?
8. "Mission Accomplished" referred not to Iraq, but to getting an image into the national consciousness to undermine the evidence that Dubya was A.W.O.L. from the Texas Air National Guard for more than a year.
9. Banner still hanging since the Lincoln's previous deployment.
10. Okay, we had our advance guy on the ship to choreograph every detail. We approved the slogan and we made the banner to bring to the ship, but we didn't "sign-off" on it.
11. It depends on what your definition of the word "accomplished" is.
I have no problem with the troops speaking up to Rummy. The Hummer was never designed to be an armor plated vehicle. They are cranking them out as fast as possible and the troops are improvising in the meantime. Is it perfect? Hell no. They were never armor plated before and perhaps should have been but at the time was a budget as well a weight issue.
I also find it ironic that the ones who are upset about it had no problem voting for a guy who voted to defund the military and voted against 87 billion to go to things exactly like that.
60 Minutes Wednesday found several of these deserters who left the Army or Marine Corps rather than go to Iraq. Like a generation of deserters before them, they fled to Canada...What do these men, who have violated orders and oaths, have to say for themselves? They told Correspondent Scott Pelley that conscience, not cowardice, made them American deserters.
B.S they signed on the dotted line and raised their right hand. Gee you mean I might have to go to war someday and fight? These guys aren't draft dodgers who were drafted into service. These guys knew what they were doing when they took their oath and when they call came they didn't answer. Call them whatever you want they ought to be prosecuted to the full extent of the UCMJ. Â
I see 20 years in the military as many things, but I don't think it's a career in the same sense as working at Wells Fargo Bank or Microsoft. Acutally I find it something more than a career. But the way it was marketed has something to do with that.
"Hughey volunteered for the Army to get money for college." Makes you wonder about the prudence of GI Bils and other cash inducements to join.
"They join up to get something. That something is the "bait.""
Now you've confirmed that you think the military baits people. And before that you openly questioned the sense of people who "take the bait." That said (and you said it, not me) I'll ask: do you think it's a good idea to "bait" people to sign up?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Dec 9, 2004 at 10:38am.]
What if you had they had family there and the missed them? Born there? Would you expect them to dispise the place? Would you require it?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 5, 2004 at 01:51pm.]
it isn't a question of despising the country but the government it had, that was the issue.
I was a kid in the 50s. Taxes were low enough that mothers stayed home with their children. The country became middle class then. People began buying second cars. Our parents had lived through the Depression and World War II, so those times didn't seem like ancient history. Sex before marriage was bad. Rock 'n' roll was considered dangerous at first. Cars were beautiful. You could look at one and immediately know what make, model and year it was. The Bomb hovered over us sometimes, but we trusted the government. Everyone went to church on Sunday.
for starters, Christ would have had trouble with it.
And Christ has selected you to speak for him?
"Quit talking to me crabgrass" - Torpedo-8
Happy?
Yes. Very.
Gdubbya SQUEEKED by Kerry, because of just over 100,000 Votes, in Ohio, or Kerry would now be President Elect, thanks to the Electoral College.
Gdubbya might have lost the WHOLE game, had Kerry won those few Votes,
in just that one
RED
State.
after the last four years wouldn't Kerry have conceded had he lost the popular vote and won the electoral vote? He would be an illegitmate president after all!!!!!!Â
I don't think he'd be saying he had some sort of a mandate from the people.
[Edited by molegrass on Nov 6, 2004 at 12:14pm.]
I thought you were on ignore, JT?
I was on ignore under JT.
Being host of the threads, I believe THX 1138 cannot be put on ignore.
Too bad for you.
LOL
"You never served, therefore you have no right to an opinion".
I love it.
You beat me to that one.
I am a "liberal" Democrat now even more so......shit hammer or not...............
"liberal", that's why your party continues to lose ground, Fold. When will you get it? Never i hope.
Fold dishes it out but doesn't expect to get it back. Poor Fold is the victim once again.
"You never served, therefore you have no right to an opinion".
Bill didn't say that. He said if you give an opinion, he'll weigh against his standards. You might not agree with his standards (I don't) but he's got them.
Don't we all do that?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 7, 2004 at 08:25am.]
Bill didn't say that. He said if you give an opinion, he'll weigh against his standards. You might not agree with his standards (I don't) but he's got them.
What he said was:
...just as I am not going to acknowledge anyone who hasn't served in uniform, on these two threads. Because the "Honest" truth is (To me anyway), that you cannot know what it is like nor can you judge anything in the services, good or bad, so all those who haven't served can do is "Comment", in the absurd-abstract...And you do it so well too!
That's pretty much shutting anyone out that hasn't served.
It's absurd.
A majority of people in this country haven't served. To shut them all out like that is insane.
"That's pretty much shutting anyone out that hasn't served."
He's doing it personally, but that's not stopping you from commenting.
"A majority of people in this country haven't served. To shut them all out like that is insane. "
It's not insane. He'll just judge your comment from some lofty perch he's constructed and figures he's entitled to.
You and I pay taxes for the DoD just like anyone else. I figure I can comment on the military if I want to. I've been told more than once around here what I'm qualified to comment on and what I'm not qualified to comment on and I ignore it.
He isn't going to ignore you anyway.
[Edited 3 times. Most recently by on Nov 7, 2004 at 10:28am.]
LOL
Well, I guess from now on I'll just ignore Bill Fold's opinion on the Job Market.
Haven't served or worn the uniform reference # 127.
Job, what job?
"That's pretty much shutting anyone out that hasn't served."
He's doing it personally, but that's not stopping you from commenting.
Doesn't it shows that he has a closed mind? and that he won't consider potentially legitmate points of view?
JT: Well, I guess from now on I'll just ignore Bill Fold's opinion on the Job Market.
Happy 229th Birthday to the United States Marine Corp.!!!!!!!!
Semper Fi.Â
 The safest place in Korea was right behind a platoon of Marines.
Lord, how they could fight! [MGen. Frank E. Lowe, USA; Korea, 26
January 1952]
Why in hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the
same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines. [Gen. John J.
"Black Jack" Pershing, USA; 12 February 1918]
 have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and
there is not a finer fighting organization in the world! [Gen.
Douglas MacArthur, USA; Korea, 21 September 1950]
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a
difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.
[Ronald Reagan, U.S. President; 1985]
Marines I see as two breeds, Rottweilers or Dobermans, because
Marines come in two varieties, big and mean, or skinny and mean.
They're aggressive on the attack and tenacious on defense. They've
got really short hair and they always go for the throat. [RAdm.
"Jay" R. Stark, USN; 10 November 1995]
 They told (us) to open up the Embassy, or "we'll blow you away." And
then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these
really big guns, and they said in Somali, "Igaralli ahow," which
means "Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake." [Karen Aquilar, in
the U.S. Embassy; Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991]
Don't you forget that you're First Marines! Not all the communists
in Hell can overrun you! [Col. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC;
rallying his First Marine Regiment near Chosin Reservoir, Korea,
December 1950]
I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other
company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it
here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on
us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will
hold. [1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC; in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918]
I love the Corps for those intangible possessions that cannot be
issued: pride, honor, integrity, and being able to carry on the
traditions for generations of warriors past. [Cpl. Jeff Sornij, USMC;
in Navy Times, November 1994]
Â
Â
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 10, 2004 at 02:03pm.]
The Rat just got back from Keegen's Pub (a hangout of the Northern Alliance bloggers). He saw the van decorated with Marine logos parked outside the bar as he walked in after working.
Keegan's is a faux Irish bar in Northeast Minneapolis. A few knicknacks, Irish music on the CD (none of the great radical Hate-the-British songs), a menu with nothing that would be considered Irish.
The guys were dressed in red jackets and carried a small banner. A little boistrous, but nothing out of line. The were just leaving as The Rat finished his Smithwicks.
One more song before we leave, the apparent leader yelled.
The men in red lined up and sang the Marine anthem. The Rat feels uncomfortable at things like this. But he clapped, and so did everyone else as they went out the door.
"Glad we were the second bar instead of the last," the bartender said.
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Nov 10, 2004 at 04:12pm.]
"Glad we were the second bar instead of the last," the bartender said.
LOL, Probably a harmless lot but I'm sure the singing would have been louder and worse had it been the last bar on their visit.
You to Bill. Happy Vets day to you. Thank You for your service.
[Edited by on Nov 11, 2004 at 09:30am.]
Thanks Vets
And if he didn't go or acknowledge them you'd complain about that.
do you suppose he's put up another "Mission Accomplished" banner?
Do you suppose?
I wouldn't doubt it.
My understanding is that the "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up by/for the servicemen aboard the ship to celebrate the end of their mission and their return home. Bush had nothing to do with it.
So, Bush isn't the leader of the Navy?
The White House didn't make the banner?
aren't there more soldiers there now than when we first invaded?
[Edited by molegrass on Dec 4, 2004 at 05:52am.]
Top 11 administration explanations for the "Mission Accomplished" banner on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln.
1. The crew thought it would be a great idea to have a message banner with the same background that they saw when they took a break from the war to watch Dubya address job creation in Canton, Ohio the week before.
2. Typo. It was supposed to read, "The first step on a long road that will still cost hundreds of U.S. lives and hundreds of billions of dollars.
3. "Spontaneous Generation."
4. It was the only thing available to cover the vandalism left behind by departing Clinton staffers.
5. Dubya is infallible. The person transmitting to his "hearing-aid" misrepresented the story of the banner.
6. Dubya soiled the alternate "Bush 2004" banner during the carrier landing.
7. What banner?
8. "Mission Accomplished" referred not to Iraq, but to getting an image into the national consciousness to undermine the evidence that Dubya was A.W.O.L. from the Texas Air National Guard for more than a year.
9. Banner still hanging since the Lincoln's previous deployment.
10. Okay, we had our advance guy on the ship to choreograph every detail. We approved the slogan and we made the banner to bring to the ship, but we didn't "sign-off" on it.
11. It depends on what your definition of the word "accomplished" is.
You need help.
"Quit talking to me crabgrass" - Torpedo-8
Re-up then, Fold.
"You didn't serve so your opinion doesn't count" #247.
[Edited by on Dec 7, 2004 at 07:50am.]
I didn't serve, so I don't get to have an opinion on homeless vets.
Homeless Iraq war vets. Fold will say anything for attention.
No JT, YOU don't understand. Therefore, YOU have no opinion.
Didn't fold say ALL of the troops are committed. How can there be any homeless ones???
I have no problem with the troops speaking up to Rummy. The Hummer was never designed to be an armor plated vehicle. They are cranking them out as fast as possible and the troops are improvising in the meantime. Is it perfect? Hell no. They were never armor plated before and perhaps should have been but at the time was a budget as well a weight issue.
I also find it ironic that the ones who are upset about it had no problem voting for a guy who voted to defund the military and voted against 87 billion to go to things exactly like that.
[Edited by on Dec 9, 2004 at 08:36am.]
60 Minutes Wednesday found several of these deserters who left the Army or Marine Corps rather than go to Iraq. Like a generation of deserters before them, they fled to Canada...What do these men, who have violated orders and oaths, have to say for themselves? They told Correspondent Scott Pelley that conscience, not cowardice, made them American deserters.
B.S they signed on the dotted line and raised their right hand. Gee you mean I might have to go to war someday and fight? These guys aren't draft dodgers who were drafted into service. These guys knew what they were doing when they took their oath and when they call came they didn't answer. Call them whatever you want they ought to be prosecuted to the full extent of the UCMJ. Â
[Edited by on Dec 9, 2004 at 08:37am.]
'You know, I made the wrong career decision.'"
I see 20 years in the military as many things, but I don't think it's a career in the same sense as working at Wells Fargo Bank or Microsoft. Acutally I find it something more than a career. But the way it was marketed has something to do with that.
"Hughey volunteered for the Army to get money for college."
Makes you wonder about the prudence of GI Bils and other cash inducements to join.
Makes you wonder about the prudence of GI Bils and other cash inducements to join.
That's the nature of the mixed message. Is it prudent to hold things like that out so someone will "take the bait?"
The military is in the business of "baiting" people?
That's a pretty amazing statement jethro. I'd read through it again.
That's a pretty amazing statement jethro. I'd read through it again.
"I didn't say bait and switch. "
I can read, jethro.
What do you mean when you say someone "takes the bait?"
[Edited by on Dec 9, 2004 at 10:15am.]
What do you mean when you say someone "takes the bait?"
"They join up to get something. That something is the "bait.""
Now you've confirmed that you think the military baits people. And before that you openly questioned the sense of people who "take the bait." That said (and you said it, not me) I'll ask: do you think it's a good idea to "bait" people to sign up?
[Edited 2 times. Most recently by on Dec 9, 2004 at 10:38am.]