If he can still egram people, and egram was the only method of harrassment associated with this site, how does banning him help the situation?
It has been stated over and over that he has problems, he does. He needs some help. Banning him from talking to the closest thing he has to support seems a bit ridiculous.
Now that his situation is public if you want to say anymore harrassment via egram or on the forums will result in a banning, that's fine. But I think he should be reinstated under that stipulation.
That's just the thing Tim.. it went BEYOND that.Waaaay beyond that. It wasn't just an egram thing, it was an up close, in person type thing as well. And I can tell U from experiance, it's scary. VERY scary.
If he can still egram people, and egram was the only method of harrassment associated with this site, how does banning him help the situation?
its about incentive. no ability to be in these fora removes incentive to egram.
and lets face it, were this a site where we weren't depending on being a folder in someone else's forum, we'd have a lot more tools at our fingertips to deal with situations like this.
wow... it got quiet all of a sudden. Either everyone is eating dinner, or dissappeared, or is in like.. a super dooper top secret thread, or was abducted by aliens. LOL J/K
you are talking about a harrasement issue that is being dealt with by the police. that is not something we have control over. we control this site, which is supposed to be an open board.
if the harrassment is coming from nick, I would bet it isn't because he is sitting here chatting with us and just might as well send a harrassing message.
the way I look at it we have 2 different things... egrams and posting in our thread. we can only control our thread, in which no harrassment has happened. we can't control anything outside of that.
if there is harrassment on a thread, ban him for life, if there isn't... let the police do their job.
I'm just curious. I barely read the threads for a while, and when I do read, it's mostly this thread and the picture thread. At times I forget the What Irritates You thread exists, and as far as I know, that's where most of Nick's instigating posting occurred. In this thread, I don't recall him saying boo to anyone. That thread just seems to cause more trouble than it's worth, because what's stopping anyone from saying something like,
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
and then posting it over and over and over. That's harrassment, but that irritates me, so i'm posting it because the forum is a place to vent. I don't know, it's confusing to me.
and like i said, were we not under someone else's limitations, he wouldn't be banned from using the egram feature of the site, he'd be banned from the whole thing.
Bottom line, harassment is harassment, wether it comes from an e-gram or it's on the thread, or in your face, what ever. The sys ops of this site are aware of what is going on I'm sure, and they will take what ever steps they deem proper. Allowing him to come in here, is like saying, hey, it's ok that this happened, hell as long as it wasn't me, it's ok. Well.. it's not ok.
The bottom line is, it's something that is happening outside of this forum, yet the punishment is banishment from this forum.
Too me, that doesn't make sense. If the ban prevented any sort of harrasment at all, I'd be behind it 100%, but it doesnt' because there was no harrasment in our threads.
It was in an e-gram that most of the harassment took place Tim, he was USING THIS FORM to harass him. Therefore, he abused his privledges to use it as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not defending the actions of Nick, or downplaying the significance of the situation at all here. I'm just talking in general I think it's wrong to ban someone from our thread for something that happened outside of it. Let's say for instance THX1138 gets boozed up at the predig gig and makes an advance towards Kitch, and a brawl starts... do they get banned from here?
Leave whats outside of here outside of here, whats in here we can do our best to govern.
He can still send egrams.....he can send them as Wicked Nick. Because he is able to come on this board. If Wicked Nick was banned 100% from Ableminds then it would be different. But he was just banned here.
right, and apparently everyone loses self-control sometimes because a lot of people post in that thread. things irritate people, they want to vent, they do. it's human nature.
harrassment is not right, god knows, i've been there myself. (not the harrasser, the harrassee) but i think matters outside of the fora should stay out of the fora for all parties involved.
I know and I trust those people who saw it made the right decision. I'm talking about the egram she sent to few people explaining what the harrassment included.
I just think there are people who are confused to why he banned. And they are defending him not knowing the facts.
Tim, I will try to explain. Nick used this forum to harass, emotionally abuse, and terrorize both Coco and myself. We had to change our lives because of what he has done. This goes far beyond what he's done on here. But the thing is, he still had the opportunity to be on here and act like nothing happened. Yet when Coco comes here, wanting to talk with friends, she couldn't. She got emotional when Nick was posting stuff. You don't know the extent of what Nick did to harass and terrorize us. If he did this to your sister or mother, you wouldn't want it to happen, you wouldn't stand for it.
And I think I've been just as clear Tim, if he's using e-grams, then it is no longer "outside" of this forum, it's now brought INSIDE the forum, and affects any other person that he is/has/was harassed. Now.. if it was just totally outside of the forum that the harassing was done, it would be completely different, but when you come here, to the site, use it's tools, to cause trouble, you're no longer leaving things "outside."
Personally, I'm curious to see how Nick can defend himself, given all that has transpired. Like I said, we feel that we have nothing to hide, that we did nothing wrong.
I respect the moderators, but at this point I really think the precedent cannot be set that someone can be banned from our forum for something that happened outside of it, even if it is on the same website.
I understand the confusion as Egrams are sent through ableminds, but we don't control all of ableminds. Tim_the_Owner knows the situation and if he wanted to ban the IP, he would.
We control our forum. I say remove the ban, if he harrasses someone in our forum, ban him for life.
And the only one unable to defend himself is Nick.
the ip addresses in tim's server log don't lie. the tcp connection won't set up at all without response from the other end, meaning that what shows up there can't be spoofed. well, i suppose it could be, but with the number of egrams that have been sent, the effort to do so would make the number of egrams impossible to send.
I feel like that is an abuse of power on the part of the moderators. When we came here, I feel like the agreement was to moderate this forum. He hasn't harrased anyone via this forum, despite what some people may think.
Nick can't defend himself... there's no justifaction for what he did. What... oh.. I had a broken heart, so I acted out in anger... yeah..acting out in anger is like saying.. screw U, I hate U, I never want to see U again. Acting out in anger is not harassing people on line, in person, on the phone, ect.
So what I'm hearing is that he was harassing as Wicked Nick originally and then after the restraining order he started doing it as Exodus or whoever but now that he's been busted he isn't doing it at all. And other than the things he did outside of here, it was all through egrams which he still has access to. So banning him from Cooler Crew Refugee Camp won't change anything. Is that right?
so you're saying that if we could do everything to prevent this we should, but since there are some of those things out of our control, we shouldn't do any of it? to me, that makes no sense.
It's not only about him harassing people "outside" the forum,(I don't know how it can be outside when he's using this forum to egram) but he is using aliases in this forum (and others) to screw with people.
Defending yourself doesnt mean that you were right in your actions. He has the right to say "hey I did this because...." or "I didnt do it" regardless. It is his right to be able to make those statements. Noone is arguing the proof. Noone is arguing that something went horribly bad!!!
It has been stated over and over that he has problems, he does. He needs some help. Banning him from talking to the closest thing he has to support seems a bit ridiculous.
Now that his situation is public if you want to say anymore harrassment via egram or on the forums will result in a banning, that's fine. But I think he should be reinstated under that stipulation.
its about incentive. no ability to be in these fora removes incentive to egram.
and lets face it, were this a site where we weren't depending on being a folder in someone else's forum, we'd have a lot more tools at our fingertips to deal with situations like this.
if the harrassment is coming from nick, I would bet it isn't because he is sitting here chatting with us and just might as well send a harrassing message.
the way I look at it we have 2 different things... egrams and posting in our thread. we can only control our thread, in which no harrassment has happened. we can't control anything outside of that.
if there is harrassment on a thread, ban him for life, if there isn't... let the police do their job.
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
and then posting it over and over and over. That's harrassment, but that irritates me, so i'm posting it because the forum is a place to vent. I don't know, it's confusing to me.
self-control.
The bottom line is, it's something that is happening outside of this forum, yet the punishment is banishment from this forum.
Too me, that doesn't make sense. If the ban prevented any sort of harrasment at all, I'd be behind it 100%, but it doesnt' because there was no harrasment in our threads.
sorry, tim. with what's been going on in the news folder, i couldn't resist :smile:
Leave whats outside of here outside of here, whats in here we can do our best to govern.
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
"Tim likes to hug too much. He's a girl."
harrassment is not right, god knows, i've been there myself. (not the harrasser, the harrassee) but i think matters outside of the fora should stay out of the fora for all parties involved.
I think I've been clear.
I just think there are people who are confused to why he banned. And they are defending him not knowing the facts.
I understand the confusion as Egrams are sent through ableminds, but we don't control all of ableminds. Tim_the_Owner knows the situation and if he wanted to ban the IP, he would.
We control our forum. I say remove the ban, if he harrasses someone in our forum, ban him for life.
And the only one unable to defend himself is Nick.
the ip addresses in tim's server log don't lie. the tcp connection won't set up at all without response from the other end, meaning that what shows up there can't be spoofed. well, i suppose it could be, but with the number of egrams that have been sent, the effort to do so would make the number of egrams impossible to send.
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
"thx is a fruitcake."
OT, pretty much.