2012 - Tony Schmidt Park

It's completely different. All the analogies in the world

do not change the fact that it was the result of poking around the

PiPress server.

It is not the victim's fault. Stop trying to shift the responsibility to

MaPress. No mas. I'm out of comments on this situation.

AW's clues have always been secured until the actual clue time (whether late or not) No matter how hard I try and 'crack the code' Then the one year they actually do an address type search clue we totally miss it.

huhhuhhuh

This is but clue one and when it is done

You may choose to smack your head and gasp "Duh"

Though snow may be gone the hunt will go on

And you will still have to search huhhuhhuh

I'm curious if Jake or Alex or anyone was thanked for informing them of their opened door?

There's no fault here. They could have said thank you or not for the information. But to punish them for letting them know about their open door? That just seems illogical to me. Especially after they shut the door with a smile right after they were told about it.

Some say all is fair in love and war. If you believe that, then there was no wrongdoing at all. It was just a matter of some people playing the game better. But not everyone thinks that way. If you believe in fair play, then you know that anyone else with a sense of fair play would know that looking at a clue in advance is not in the spirit of the game. You can't really say witchdoctor is wrong. We all know that looking at a clue in advance, whatever the circumstances, is gray territory at best. But if some people want to venture into that territory, that is their choice and not a choice others would make for themselves. Personally though I wouldn't go so far as to condemn it. The best analogy might be insider trading. You come across some information that you know wasn't meant for public release but it was easy enough to get at. Again, is it wrong to take advantage of it or is it just playing the game better? Technically I don't believe there is anything in the published rules againt looking at a clue early if you know where to find it on a public website. And indeed the clue was published on a public website. It wasn't just being stored on a server.

So, with all this arguing, how much more do you think it will take before the Pioneer Press decides the hassle isn't worth it and calls it quits on future hunts?

Reading all the comments on their facebook page makes me wonder...

Also.. something tells me if they do have future hunts and Jake finds it, they aren't going to get the medallion back from him....

I'm guessing that the PP has never had more hits in February before. This thing or the hunt is going nowhere. There would be outrage towards the PP after the outrage towards Jake fades away. Then it would hit them where they don't want to be hit. This is all good right now as far as the PP is concerned.

Are you able to get the interview recording taped Joel?

Depends.. do they keep their live stream archived so you can go back to it? I couldn't record it at work.

Actually they have the whole hour online as an mp3.

http://downloads.iheartradio.com/media/station_content/612/COMMON_021312_HR2_1329162880_15518.mp3

I can edit out just the interview portion if you want.

I read that as if you were Andy Rooney - good stuff

I just typed in the link to the Common Man radio interview, but I think I mis-typed the URL - it sounds like he's having sex with a Cat, I dunno...

:pbpt:

Starts at 12.:40. http://www.kfan.com/player/?station=KFXN-FM&program_name=podcast&program_id=KFAN_Common.xml&mid=21815406

well put.

I think it is similar to figuring out when they were going to hide the medallion,following them, and watching them hide the medallion and then pick it up the first day of the hunt. I would have done nothing wrong,I would have played the game better than anyone else. But I would have violated the spirit of the game and would feel cheapened by finding it that way.

On the other hand, the nature of having a puzzle,to figure out does invoke a spirit of "thinking outside the box" to come up with a creative way to solve their puzzle. It can be argued that using a creative means to get around a puzzle is within the spirit of the game.

The paper felt the spirit of their game was violated and therefor ruled that 4 good hunters do not deserve to be called finders, and that is their prerogative.

I hope they do not extend a ban on future hunts for breaking the spirit of the game, but not actually breaking any rules of the game.

Hi All,

I am signing out, deleting my account. In light of the behavior of some of the members of the cooler crew, I find I must separate and go it alone once again for the puck. Sad because I like so many of you.

This has gone too far and the unsportsman-like behavior here is crazy. Again, it's not by everyone. It's enough to make a separation by me necessary.

Read the rules, if you don't like the rules or the entity governing the game and their decisions, don't play. End of story. Everyone involved was in a tight spot here.

I really don't know if I will hunt again or not. I certainly cannot have my name associated in any way with the Cooler Crew. And hey, it's not cool.

At first I was upset that someone would cheat to find the medallion. But the more I think about it, we were encouraged to think out side of the box. I

How am I to know that leaving a trail to figure out what the next clue was was not part of the game? I frequently figure out the right park for totally the wrong interpretation of the clue.

The nature of solving a puzzle to figure out the clues encourages hunters to try and crack a code. Such as the code the clue web addresses were located in. This was not cheating, it was within both the spirit of the game and within the rules.

I think the Pioneer Press Treasure hunt's response was initially similar to mine, being upset that someone would cheat to find the treasure. But I encourage "the Hunt" to think of it again that actually figuring out the code to get the clues is both within the spirit of the game, and within the rules.

I now would like to congratulate all who were able to figure out this clue, intentionally given or not.

The pp should have given them all a DQ when Jake called them. It is like reading your girlfriends diary. Sure, she left it open on the bed, but you know it was a mistake, not an invitation.

I a m not being holier than thou, I am sure I might have tried the exact same thing, if I had thought of it. I have looked at people's cards while playing poker because they let me.

But you can't say having extra info is not an advantage, and you can't say that the punishment is not intended to keep the hunt fair. What I will say is that the decision was made way too late. Jake notified the paper, and they had 56 hours to do it right. I wish they had. It could have remained a private matter, as it should have been.

...we've all done that...

:frown: :frown: :frown: :frown: :frown: :frown: :frown: :frown:

Like*

I'm not sure if I'm upset with all of this our not...

alex...I like you. I've always thought you was good "competition" in any hunt I've done in the past and also feel an great addition to my team if teaming up with you. You have a great attitude for finding things. I do feel bad for you and all of this (I couldn't begin to imagine how you feel). Jake same thing...I just feel worse for alex as he's getting the bad end of the stick IMHO...

the history of this will go down as Alex was the hacker.....jake will disappear in all of this....maybe unless jake will go down as just riding the shirt tails of the real finder (which could be worse)....I don't know...

but seriously?

imho the paper is trying to keep all this on the downlow and fury motors might have had a hell of a lot more to say in all of this.... why do i think that???

http://www.twincities.com/TreasureHunt

where is the story???

why is the top link just an story of all of the finders?, If the paper was that ticked off they would delete the story...

I'm not trying to stir up drama...I'm just making comments on what I find as strange...

---

on a side note...just for a little bit of humor

http://photos.twincities.com/2012/01/video-treasure-hunt-dos-and-donts/15651/

I just don't see "figuring out a way to get a clue quicker than the crowd" as a "don't"

:goofy:

I'd hate to see you go Sunny. It was nice getting to know you this hunt. There have been a number of us that would have liked to remove ourselves from certain situations over the years. My suggestion is to take a breath and distant yourself from this drama and let it unfold without the undo stress it's obviously causing you. It'll blow over and all will be ok in the end. We all still hold dear the same passion of hunting for a piece of plastic in the middle of a Minnesota winter. Plus as the saying goes: you can check out any time you want but you can never leave - Hotel Coolerfornia :smile:

Please reconsider

I agree with Brad - Taking a time out is a good thing. We're not ornery about the hunt all year long, and this will blow over soon enough. If you are paid up for the next year, just leave the account alone for a while and check back later. We WILL miss you.

-- I would probably disconnect from the Pioneer Press Treasure Hunt feeds on Facebook, though. Nothing good will be broadcast from there for a while.

Nice job on the changed wording on the CC homepage. I like it.

"It seems the PP had trouble you see

With many cries of things that went afoul

Were attacks baseless? You might think tasteless,

Some considered throwing in the towel."

:angry: :goofy: :wink:

Hmmm, seems I've seen that before somewhere.

Would someone kindly post directions on deleting an account here? I posted a few ideas to share this year but mainly joined to check things out and see if "outsiders" would be well received. After this whole depressing episode following the hunt and seeing where the chips have fallen, I feel that I can no longer associate with this group. I feel that many here are not able to take an objective view of the situation because they are close friends with those involved in the controversy. Should the PP have better secured their site? Sure. But, there is more than that. I am sure that these are nice guys and I find it regrettable how personal it has gotten on other boards. But, I am uncomfortable with the blanket statement (and its tone) on the coolercrew.com website and, therefore, fear as I have for many years that I don't belong here.

SpEagle9, sorry to hear that. Was looking forward to getting to know you, one eagle to another. Wasn't on much during the hunt, still am not on much, as I have been extra busy at work and with family stuff.

Sorry you feel that way SpEagle9 (did we meet). I made it a topic with people on how you were the first to nail the park and nobody addressed you good or bad on your noodle. I addressed you once I came back in the cooler but many of us don't even stop in here during the main hunt. We're out hunting and maybe that's why some people feel the way they do since they're only exposed to what's going on in here during the hunt and nothing else. It's like someone being upset that you didn't share more or give any opinions about their noodles when they have no idea (other than to look at your post count) to realize that you're just as new as they are.

Props once again for being the big dog on figuring out the street clue. Good job.

Unfortunately I can't say one thing or another about the drama that's currently unfolding on FB. This hasn't happened before and so it may be a bit much for someone new to see first hand and think it's the norm. Believe me it's not. Just slog back and see.

I do understand about the being too close to have an unbiased opinion but it still comes down to personal lines. No side is right in this case. If some things have crossed your or my line it doesn't mean that it's the same for others. Especially if there isn't a clearly written rule in place to make it black and white.

I hope you stick around. AW's hunt is upon us and kinda similar to the main hunt some of us don't post much past clue 4 or 5 there's still some good dialog going on during the hunt.

They did promise to disband every hunter's alliance this year.

Yes, they did.

A note on newcomers...

The Cooler Crew held its first Rehash Bash in 1998. That was 14 years ago. And though this crowd has evolved since then, many people here have been around a long time.

It's hard to be a newcomer in any group that has known each other for a long time. It's simply how human interaction works, though perhaps moreso in Minnesota. People that have known each other for a long time have history, familiarity, and comfort between them. It's easier to talk to each other than to people they don't know. In this particular environment of the hunt it can be even harder for the new person. You might make it out to the Pre-Dig for that initial greeting, but whereas the second step is getting to know people, boom, everyone scatters to go look for the medallion. Or maybe you come out to the Rehashm but then boom, everyone disappears until next year. It takes time and shared experiences to form bonds with people, and those can be tricky to come by when people's focus is somewhere else.

On the other hand, it's not hopeless. Everyone here was new at one time, and not everyone goes back to the beginning (in fact there may be only 4 who do). If you really want to get involved with the group, the Pre-Dig and/or Rehash Bash is a start. But I'd also recommend hanging out with the group at the bar before the clue comes out. Talk to people in the park. Do the mock hunts and watch for other social gatherings during the year. Once you can successfully share some experiences with the group, you'll be well on your way to being a part of the group. But until then it can indeed feel difficult.

I was not an 'original' member, either. My way of learning who everybody was by printing out the 'Meet the Cooler Crew' web site pages with everybody's photo on it; then walking around at the Pre-Dig and making everybody 'autograph' their photos. Got to know faces, names and internet avatars all at the same time (but I still can't remember them all).

During the hunt time the group is barely 'organized', with factions scattering into different search parties and such. If you had the time to stay up late and go to Gabe's for the daily newspaper clue releases, you'd see many of the Coolers there on different nights of the week. The first week of the hunt is usually a low-pressure situation, and people are much more sociable while waiting around for the papers to arrive.

If you hang around here (Ableminds) through the warm weather months, you'll find out there's other things we do as a (partial) group; including pizza socials, drive-in movies, disc golfing, and other local treasure hunts.

It's hard to get used to a group that DOESN'T hold weekly/monthly meetings or wear name tags, but after a while it doesn't matter. I hope this helps.

Just want to say...the Cooler Crew is so much more than what is going on at any moment.

The Cooler Crew started as a small group of people who so badly did not want the Chair-o-key hunt of 1998 to end, that we had a winter picnic in the park so that we could meet face-to-face. From there, we got together about once a month, and an important aspect of our get-togethers is that they were at family-friendly places. We ate, talked, laughed, played games, and enjoyed new friendships. On Earth Day, we went to the park where the hunt had been to pick up litter and have a picnic. Over the years we have been there to support one another during good times and bad. We have lost members who have died, and we have welcomed new members old and young. We've networked with those who were job-hunting, and were there just when people needed us most. New love has blossomed for some, and we've shed tears together when loved ones have died. We wrote poems and songs, swapped advice on digging implements, and tried very hard to welcome anyone who wanted to get to know us.

We are made up of all ages, and come from all walks of life. Many of us are self-proclaimed geeks (even before that was popular) or we wish we were, anyway.

I have learned so much from other Coolerheads. It is fun to be around them, especially when they are noodling. They are smart, funny, and sometimes clueless. They can stretch a clue meaning from here to the moon and back.

Over the years, many groups have formed to hunt the medallion. Some have tight associations, some are pretty informal, but mostly they and the Cooler Crew have been friendly to one another.

Eventually we found a private pay board to post on, as some of the boards got (and still get) downright nasty. And eventually, we found our way to Able Minds, which has so much to offer, including but certainly not limited to Cooler Crew boards.

Some think that makes us aloof, but we just wanted some peace and quiet amid the nastiness. Note that it is not a private board - anyone can subscribe. I think we have some pretty great ambassadors posting. I saw lots of posts welcoming new posters this year and every year.

I am part of a great group of people - The Cooler Crew. Troubles come and go in any life, in any group, and they usually sort themselves out. I'm betting they will this time, too.

I'm a life-long hunter, but new to Cooler Crew this year, and spent my time observing the forums and interactions at Gabes and the parks during the Hunt. I have now seen two people leaving this site because of the nastiness, which is interesting because Eags states above that this site was created to avoid all the nastiness. So, I too will give you my observations, as an outsider looking in, for what it's worth. First of all, you ARE a tight knit group and appear to be close to be at least two of this year's finders. Second, you love the Hunt (as I do too). Third, you might be blinded by your friendships and dedication to the Hunt. Fourth, the Pioneer Press has done this Hunt for 60 years. It's been stated many times that this is a different Hunt because of what happened. What I find kind of wierd is that you love the Hunt, love the fact that it is associated with an established ethical newspaper, but yet you are ready to bash the integrity of the organization that has ran it for 60 years.The truth is, nobody seems to know the real story except the 5 co-finders and the newspaper. Of the 5 finders, only 1 is calling foul. the others are silent. I went back and re-read the article and the Facebook statements and the comments here, and did my own noodling. Although we might never know the real story, I just don't think that the paper would take away someone's naming rights without some sort of just cause. Besides which, the paper only named one person. (and it wasn't even Jake). I don't even know who the other two folks are.I think that someone (at Gabes?) mentioned that Alex is a lawyer? If so, it is interesting that even he is not pursuing this.

Just have to say, even though we all know each other, doesn't mean we ARE each other or are joined at the hip. Other than one or two conversations each year with a couple of the finders, I don't know them well. I don't know the other two at all, not even by sight. Not trying to dis-associate here, just pointing out that generalizations about everyone in the Cooler Crew are just not true.

In the past, any disagreements that happened in here, stayed in here - and frankly, never really escalated past 24 hours of grumbling most of the time.

Facebook didn't really come into the picture until last year, and really did not get heavy use until THIS year, when a lot more people have smart phones with quick shortcuts to Facebook for instant access.

I blame this entire fiasco on Facebook use, because people post things meant for a personal and private groups/audiences, and forget a LOT of it gets 'broadcast' to other Friends' news feeds and front pages. One smartass remark meant as a joke can get multiplied everywhere at a damn near geometric rate, and stirring the pot goes straight from a wooden spoon to a high speed weed whipper with no pause in-between.

The power of a public broadcast news feed is still lost on a lot of people. They speak out about one or two points of interest, and within hours it's a town meeting debating everything from parking to world peace.

If it would be possible to take out the context of other social networks and message boards, this group - in this site - is pretty well jovial, friendly, and focused on the hunt. When you compare all the negative and just plain absurd sh*t that get's spread all over the public forums, it's well worth the $10 to pay and post here.

I cannot speak for Alex directly, but the riff-raff that keeps slamming Jake and the others in the public boards are doing so simply to get a reaction. Period. Ignoring them is the best defense, and they WILL go away eventually. Alex is doing just that.

The best example I can give to illustrate this is the KQRS Radio DJ Tom Barnard. He's a smartass, and occasionally has gotten in trouble with what he says. What he has refused to do for decades, and is the key reason why that Morning Show has been successful - is that he NEVER acknowledges the competition (or protestors) in ANY public broadcast or statement. He does his thing, and they do their thing. That's why Howard Stern was never able to make a dent in the Twin Cities radio market when he was trying to 'take over' the US with his morning show. Love him, or hate him, he knows his audience - and doesn't ever recognize other Radio shows unless someone retires, gets fired, or dies.

I don't buy this who story...

I wish a few more people would listen to this story!!!!!

I guess I'm not getting the same story from all angles....that is why I want everybody to listen to this and post what they know about this...

:cool:

Thank you for your objective bystander observations Brettaa. It is harder to see things from the inside. And I know it can't be easy to make a first post among strangers.

From what I've seen nobody is bashing the paper or the hunt itself but more the handling of one isolated incident. And even then It's rather trivial in the whole scheme of things regarding the hunt. I don't see any of us boycotting next years hunt because this stuff. In the end anybody has the right to defend oneself or not. And anyone else has a right to their personal opinion. As you have shown here yourself. It's all perspective anyway. And anyone can stay or leave if they want. It may not be for everyone. It's the same as 'real' life. It's just laid out all neat and tidy to read over and over unlike the real world. Personal choice is exactly that personal. To you. so of course you'll have a strong opinion about such things. Sometimes the agree to disagree statement comes in handy. Unfortunately it usually comes later than sooner and feelings are inadvertently hurt. I hope nobody does leave the group including yourself but it is a personal option There are many of us that have no problem talking with newbies. Hopefully you'll explore that opportunity. I know that we would look forward to it.

LIKE!!!

I'm very sad that you feel you have to leave hanging out with us.

I didn't get to hang with you much during this hunt but looked forward to future opportunities. Hunt time is always crazy and not everyone agrees on many things but we learn things from each other because of those disagreements. They are different view points and sometimes interesting. I learn new things all the time.

take care my frog kissing friend - til we meet again.

you have a valid point- the pp had plenty of time to do something.

It may have been kept quiet if Jake wasn't involved with the find.

It's probably a big reason why the pp came forward in the first place.

I believe the pp knew who was involved (besides Jake) when they put the article in the pp about the clue being out there early.

What did you want them to do? Jake called and said there was a clue out early, I haven't seen any information published that he said Alex was involved, or anyone else. He said a clue was out early. MaPress thanked him for the information and said they would look into it.

Probably not a lot more they could do with that information, beyond what they did (go in and fix the problem). He read the clue on KFAN --no mention of any person.

They put the aricle in the paper about the clue being out there because that is what they do. Newspaper = Find out information and published it. You honestly think they would have handled it differently if Jake wasn't involved? Seriously?

hmm...